Heckert: The importance of Top of the Table meetings has been, for me, an experience of learning to learn. I used to come for advice, and now I seek knowledge. My very first Top of the Table meeting was in 2000. The best thing I learned that helped me transform way before the need to move to Zoom was from Ralph Antolino and his Presidential acceptance, where he came out in a suit and tie and swimming trunks and flip flops. He said six months out of the year, he has client meetings back in Columbus, Ohio, from his home in the British Virgin Islands. I’ve known Ralph for a very long time, and I thought, Cute, that’ll work for him, but it’ll never work for me. I have to drive to my clients, I have 401(k) plans, and I have people all over the place who need to see me face-to-face. But that was a year before I joined the Executive Committee where we had to make a business decision. If we were going to keep the practice open and moving, we had to move to virtual meetings in order to see our clients.

So what I’m going to challenge you to do today is to listen and think about how we can apply this as a group. I’m going to challenge this group to continue to talk and keep the discussion going to make it better. I’d like everybody to listen with an open mind, get the headset and start thinking about where this is going. If we can take it from game stage to financial services, I think we can make a significant difference.

Leledakis: I started in this profession back in 1999. I was a law student. I was supposed to become a lawyer. Then I met someone who explained to me the career of an insurance advisor. I was very excited about what we can do.

I was then fortunate to meet an MDRT member. I asked him, “Can I do it?” “Of course. You have to do this, this, and this. You have to do five or six appointments a day.” I cannot do six appointments a day with this traffic. It’s not possible. So in 2003 I started for the first time to combine the physical and the digital world. I started making teleconferences with Skype.

The other thing the MDRT guy told me was “What do you dream for your future?” I said, “I want to be a great producer.” He said, “No, think bigger.” “I want to be the first in the country.” “No, no, think bigger.” And I said, “OK, I want to work wherever I want in the world and have an impact on this industry and change the image of our profession.” I didn’t have one friend outside of Greece at that time. Now I’m here, twice Top of the Table. I’m speaking to more than 50 countries around the world, and I can work wherever I want in the world. So don’t let anybody tell you that something is impossible. When someone tells you it’s not possible, they are showing you their limits, not your limits.

Technology gave me the advantage of being able to have a huge voice and being able to educate and train more consumers about insurance.

In 2010 I started prospecting with webinars. That was very innovative. We can have the best of both worlds. You can do in-person meetings. You can do Zoom meetings. You can make webinars. You can use VR. You can use whatever you want. The use of technology and the embrace of technology is something very important if we want to take our profession to the next level.

Heckert: I think the important thing is that a lot of people came here to listen to the VR portion, and we’ll talk about that in a little bit. But the takeaway that I hear a lot of people leave out is the marketing. Now, you came to the United States how long ago?

Leledakis: One and a half years ago.

Heckert: And you are already an advisor, and you are building your practice. You talked about that idea. What is the other thing that you are doing differently? What are you doing for these clients?

Leledakis: I came to the USA because I started with an idea back in Greece. In 2015 I founded my own insurtech startup. I found some investors, and I convinced them to invest $500,000 in my company. When we set up the deal, the question was “Your idea is amazing. What happens if you die?” “I will tell you that it’s a simple answer. You will insure me for $6 million, and if I die, you will take the profits of the next six years.” So I took this idea, and I presented it to brokers, to venture capitalists, to angel investors, to family offices. I convinced them to insure the founder and the key persons of the startup. That’s how I did my two $35 million life insurance policies last year. And I’m here at Top of the Table.

Heckert: Let’s transition and talk about that client for a little bit because everybody who hears “$35 million” perks up. The cost of that was $400 and a little bit for your USB. So $475 and you made two $35 million sales. Talk them through the process because I think my vision when I heard that was you had this great presentation of where you were on VR, but that wasn’t the case, was it?

Leledakis: I started using VR three years ago. Let me tell you why you should buy and use VR. The first thing is for branding, right? If you take that and you ask millennials or zoomers, “Where do you want to meet? In Zoom? In person? Or in VR?” What do you think they will think, even if they don’t have VR? Wow, Brian, you’re amazing. You’re doing VR meetings. So your branding is cutting edge. That’s the first thing. The second thing is if you go now to Google and just type “Oculus Quest 2 groups” or “Meta Quest 2 groups,” you will find hundreds of thousands of people who already have a VR headset and are discussing in groups how they use it and what kind of software to use. I was going to these groups, and I was engaging to understand what they were discussing.

And I said to these guys, “You use that for playing, but would you have a meeting with me in VR? Do you want to see how interesting it is?” Because they are playing with that, they were coming to my meeting. I approached them as clients, and I’m closing.

Heckert: So, as a new advisor, I’ve done two meetings with you. I’ve been on three or four times. I’ve learned how easy it is. Basically, it’s a 360-degree computer screen. And the advantage I see is exactly what you said. What are the disadvantages? Have you run into the negatives of being in the VR world?

Leledakis: Yes. It’s a bit tiring to wear this for two or three hours a day. You cannot do that. I use it only for one hour a day. Except for that I don’t find any other disadvantages currently.

I was just reading an article that VR training makes people concentrate better on what’s happening, and it’s a better way to learn. It’s an amazing tool that we can also use for training.

Heckert: How do you use this, and how would you suggest our members use it? First, should they get the Meta Quest, or how should they capitalize on this presentation today?

Leledakis: So they can buy a Meta Quest headset, and they can have a meeting in so many environments like on a yacht, in an executive meeting office or on the space station. We can invite millennials and zoomers, and they will be impressed. At the same time, I, as an avatar, can go to VR worlds, I can meet hundreds of people, and I can network. I can prospect.

Heckert: I look at this as similar to how we looked at the fax machine, how we looked at the internet in the early stages. I’m glad you were able to show us this today.

Leledakis: So tell me, do you find it difficult to use VR? First, it’s not expensive. The headset is very cheap now, $400.

Heckert: It’s not, once you understand how to use the controllers and the simplicity of what it’s trying to do. This is now my fourth time on VR with you. I think it’s worth everybody’s attention because it will become something in the future.

Leledakis: VR is going to be the new trend. You will see that in one or two years. Everybody will use VR.

Heckert: I’m going to challenge everybody in this room and the people you talk to afterward. Panos and I would like to initiate a VR study group. So if you have a headset or if you want to buy the headset, I’d like to challenge this group to be in the forefront of how we can adapt this to the financial world. I think if we could get a collective here like we’ve done with our book study groups to explore and share ideas, we can only make this better.